Tuesday, June 24, 2014

Anabaptist bread. With Catholic leaven.


   And he charged them, saying, 

Take heed, beware of the leaven of the Pharisees, and of the leaven of Herod. 

Mark 8:15, KJB


 *    *    *

How you can be more a deceiver?

 [My Italic, parenthesis, question marks].

"....... In 1184, they were included in a papal decree against dangerous heretics and became subject to anti-heresy legislation, despite lack of evidence [???] that they were unorthodox. But repression was patchy, depending on the interest of the authorities. (.....)....

Gradually tensions appeared within the movement. Valdes hoped for reconciliation with the Catholic Church [???] and having a reforming influence in it....(....)....

Somewhat surprisingly, many retained devotion to Mary [???], despite the teachings of their leaders. ....(.....).....

On baptism, there was uncertainty. They were not fully convinced infant baptism was biblical or appropriate, but they seem rarely to have abandoned it. [???] .....".

Source: http://www.anabaptistnetwork.com/waldensians


Written by:

 Stuart Murray Williams

Tutor in Mission

 Stuart spent 12 years as an urban church planter in East London and has continued to be involved in church planting as a trainer, mentor, writer, strategist and consultant. For 9 years he was Oasis Director of Church Planting and Evangelism at Spurgeon’s College, London. Since then, under the auspices of the Anabaptist Network, he has worked as a trainer and consultant, with particular interest in urban mission, church planting and emerging forms of church. He is the founder of Urban Expression. He has written books on church planting, urban mission, emerging church, the challenge of post-Christendom and the Anabaptist tradition.

URL: http://www.bristol-baptist.ac.uk/content/stuart-murray-williams-0


They "...seem rarely to have abandoned it"??...:

 ".... Not only is there a lack of affirmation of a belief in infant baptism among the early Waldenses, but there is evidence that they openly rejected that doctrine. Everts says:

The creed of the Bohemian Waldenses published in 1532 (quoted by Sterck) is equally explicit on this point of dispute: "It is clear as day that infant baptism does no good, and is not ordered by Christ, but invented by man. Christ wants His baptism based upon His word for the forgiveness of sins, and then He promises, he that believeth and is baptized shall be saved.” [19]

Says Orchard:

Jacob Merning says that he had, in the German tongue, a confession of faith of the Baptists, called Waldenses, which declared the absence of infant baptism in the early churches of these people, that their forefathers practised no such thing. . . . [20]

URL: http://www.abaptistvoice.com/English/Books/Waldenses.htm#Chapter-2

    It is interest in the Roman Catholicism to present the true Christians contesting her blasphemies as "born from the void", without any form of lineage coming from the early Christians and the Apostolic tradition. Therefore Waldenses or Vaudoises, for the desire of the popes, were only a “sect” born just only from the mystical experience of a rich man, Waldo, who made out of himself poor in order to “discover” Christian values. 

    The true interest of the Catholic church, a concentrate of prostitution and abomination, is the haunt of the Christians, to destroy them as ordered by Satan. Therefore the vigorous exposition of the practice of the Roman Catholicism, the mass, the pedo-baptism, the confession, the popery and millions of other nails they everyday try to fix in the Jesus Crhist's body, (His church of the true believers), has NOT to be presented as the product of the transmission of the true doctrines of eternal life directly from the Apostolic age. If the Waldenses originated from Waldo, it means there was no one before him and like him, and therefore the only presence, from the Apostolic age, ought to be the one of the church of Rome. Conclusion: if there was present only the church of Rome, it is natural consequence to consider her (false) teaching as the “true Christian doctrine”.

    Satan has many bakers ready to cook his evil bread in the most different shapes, also the “anti-Catholic” ones, because no one then will imagine it containing his leaven. 


    To be convinced about this, read James A. Wylie in his “The history of Protestantism”, Volume first, book first, about the early Italian Christians of the late ancient age. How is it possible that pastors  like Stuart Murray Williams don't make the least hint to this early story of Christian struggle against Catholic apostasy, and how the Jesus Christ's doctrine could have been preserved all along the centuries, directly from the Apostolic age, also inside the valleys and on the mountains of the Alps and then everywhere in the Central Europe? A true Anabaptist believer must have interest in to consider his/her belief as the true genuine one, of the first hour, flowing directly from Jesus Christ's grace, because the true sect created by men and inspired by Satan, here, is the one of Rome and not of the Anabaptists:


 "...... The Nobla Leycon, which dates from

the year 1100, [3] goes to prove that the

Waldenses of Piedmont did not owe their rise

to Peter Waldo of Lyons, who did not appear

till the latter half of that century


by James A. Wylie

 The History of Protestantism

 by James A. Wylie (1808-1890)

 CHAPTER 5 [exceerpt]



 [my note, of avles: Aquileia town of Rufinus is about twenty kilometres from my town]

 Ambrose of Milan – His Diocese – His Theology – Rufinus, Presbyter of Aquileia – Laurentius of Milan – The Bishops of the Grisons – Churches of Lombardy in Seventh and Eighth Centuries – Claude in the Ninth Century – His Labors – Outline of his Theology – His Doctrine of the Eucharist – His Battle against Images – His Views on the Roman Primacy – Proof thence arising – Councils in France approve his Views – Question of the Services of the Roman Church to the Western Nations. 

The apostasy was not universal. At no time did God leave His ancient Gospel without witnesses. When one body of confessors yielded to the darkness, or was cut off by violence, another arose in some other land, so that there was no age in which, in some country or other of Christendom, public testimony was not borne against the errors of Rome, and in behalf of the Gospel which she sought to destroy.

The country in which we find the earliest of these Protesters is Italy. The See of Rome, in those days, embraced only the capital and the surrounding provinces. The diocese of Milan, which included the plain of Lombardy, the Alps of Piedmont, and the southern provinces of France, greatly exceeded it in extent.[1] It is an undoubted historical fact that this powerful diocese was not then tributary to the Papal chair. "The Bishops of Milan," says Pope Pelagius I. (555), "do not come to Rome for ordination." He further informs us that this "was an ancient custom of theirs."[2] Pope Pelagius, however, attempted to subvert this "ancient custom," but his efforts resulted only in a wider estrangement between the two dioceses of Milan and Rome. For when Platina speaks of the subjection of Milan to the Pope under Stephen IX.,[3] in the middle of the eleventh century, he admits that "for 200 years together the Church of Milan had been separated from the Church of Rome." Even then, though on the very eve of the Hildebrandine era, the destruction of the independence of the diocese was not accomplished without a protest on the part of its clergy, and a tumult on the part of the people. The former affirmed that "the Ambrosian Church was not subject to the laws of Rome; that it had been always free, and could not, with honor, surrender its liberties." The latter broke out into clamor, and threatened violence to Damianus, the deputy sent to receive their submission. "The people grew into higher ferment," says Baronius;[4] "the bells were rung; the episcopal palace beset; and the legate threatened with death." Traces of its early independence remain to this day in the Rito or Culto Ambrogiano, still in use throughout the whole of the ancient Archbishopric of Milan.

One consequence of this ecclesiastical independence of Northern Italy was, that the corruptions of which Rome was the source were late in being introduced into Milan and its diocese. The evangelical light shone there some centuries after the darkness had gathered in the southern part of the peninsula. Ambrose, who died A.D. 397, was Bishop of Milan for twenty-three years. His theology, and that of his diocese, was in no essential respects different from that which Protestants hold at this day. The Bible alone was his rule of faith; Christ alone was the foundation of the Church; the justification of the sinner and the remission of sins were not of human merit, but by the expiatory sacrifice of the Cross; there were but two Sacraments, Baptism and the Lord's Supper, and in the latter Christ was held to be present only figuratively.[5] Such is a summary of the faith professed and taught by the chief bishop of the north of Italy in the end of the fourth century.[6]

Rufinus, of Aquileia, first metropolitan in the diocese of Milan, taught substantially the same doctrine in the fifth century. His treatise on the Creed no more agrees with the catechism of the Council of Trent than does the catechism of Protestants.[7] His successors at Aquileia, so far as can be gathered from the writings which they have left behind them, shared the sentiments of Rufinus.

To come to the sixth century, we find Laurentius, Bishop of Milan, holding that the penitence of the heart, without the absolution of a priest, suffices for pardon; and in the end of the same century (A.D. 590) we find the bishops of Italy and of the Grisons, to the number of nine, rejecting the communion of the Pope, as a heretic, so little then was the infallibility believed in, or the Roman supremacy acknowledged.[8] In the seventh century we find Mansuetus, Bishop of Milan, declaring that the whole faith of the Church is contained in the Apostles' Creed; from which it is evident that he did not regard as necessary to salvation the additions which Rome had then begun to make, and the many she has since appended to the apostolic doctrine. The Ambrosian Liturgy, which, as we have said, continues to be used in the diocese of Milan, is a monument to the comparative purity of the faith and worship of the early Churches of Lombardy.

In the eighth century we find Paulinus, Bishop of Aquileia, declaring that "we feed upon the divine nature of Jesus Christ, which cannot be said but only with respect to believers, and must be understood metaphorically." Thus manifest is it that he rejected the corporeal manducation of the Church at Rome. He also warns men against approaching God through any other mediator or advocate than Jesus Christ, affirming that He alone was conceived without sin; that He is the only Redeemer, and that He is the one foundation of the Church. "If any one," says Allix, "will take the pains to examine the opinions of this bishop, he will find it a hard thing not to take notice that he denies what the Church of Rome affirms with relation to all these articles, and that he affirms what the Church of Rome denies."[9]

It must be acknowledged that these men, despite their great talents and their ardent piety, had not entirely escaped the degeneracy of their age. The light that was in them was partly mixed with darkness. Even the great Ambrose was touched with a veneration for relics, and a weakness for other superstitious of his times. But as regards the cardinal doctrines of salvation, the faith of these men was essentially Protestant, and stood out in bold antagonism to the leading principles of the Roman creed. And such, with more or less of clearness, must be held to have been the profession of the pastors over whom they presided. And the Churches they ruled and taught were numerous and widely planted. They flourished in the towns and villages which dot the vast plain that stretches like a garden for 200 miles along the foot of the Alps; they existed in those romantic and fertile valleys over which the great mountains hang their pine forests and snows, and, passing the summit, they extended into the southern provinces of France, even as far as to the Rhone, on the banks of which Polycarp, the disciple of John, in early times had planted the Gospel, to be watered in the succeeding centuries by the blood of thousands of martyrs. Darkness gives relief to the light, and error necessitates a fuller development and a clearer definition of truth. On this principle the ninth century produced the most remarkable perhaps of all those great champions who strove to set limits to the growing superstition, and to preserve, pure and undefiled, the faith which apostles had preached. The mantle of Ambrose descended on Claudius, Archbishop of Turin. This man beheld with dismay the stealthy approaches of a power which, putting out the eyes of men, bowed their necks to its yoke, and bent their knees to idols. He grasped the sword of the Spirit, which is the Word of God, and the battle which he so courageously waged, delayed, though it could not prevent, the fall of his Church's independence, and for two centuries longer the light continued to shine at the foot of the Alps. Claudius was an earnest and indefatigable student of Holy Scripture. That Book carried him back to the first age, and set him down at the feet of apostles, at the feet of One greater than apostles; and, while darkness was descending on the earth, around Claude still shone the day.....". Etc.

Chapter 5. continues in the page at the above link.


Friday, May 30, 2014




  1. "Absolution"?? "Penance"??? Who should give 'absolution'? A human creature? It seems pure Cathlic doctrine:


    "............The importance of confessing sins, doing PENANCE and RECEIVING ABSOLUTION was retained throughout the movement.........".

  2. Thank you for your article. I am soon to start a work of my own to compile a short history of the true christians.

    Having a almost total monopoly on "historical truth" certainly gives the Catholic church an advantage in the "apostolic succession" struggle. But God through John tells us:

    1John 2:
    18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
    19 THEY WENT OUT FROM US, but THEY WERE NOT OF US; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have CONTINUED WITH US: but they went out, THAT THEY MIGHT BE MANIFEST that they were not all of us.


    1 Corinthians 11:19
    For there MUST ALSO BE HERESIES among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.

    The satanic presumtion of the catholic(and orthodox) church to be the original and therefore pre-eminent, apostolic church is a bunch of nonsense that hangs on a ton of blatant lies, omission of historical facts and selective readings. The sects/heresies/APOSTATES are the Roman priests WHO WERE NEVER EVEN SAVED - a succession of unsaved, satanic, reprobate devil worshippers who were mandated by constantine&co to take temporal power over the realms of Rome.

    Putting so much emphasis on WALDO is a sure sign they are trying, as always(like in my country) to present true christians as sect followers(Scriptures:
    Acts 24:5; 24:14; 28:22)

    As you can probably see in your historical study, among the protestant scholars VERY FEW acknowledge the Waldenses as the messangers of the christian faith. This is only logical, since most of the protestants presume the reformation to be the start of biblical christianity of Europe(which it is not).If they base their Eschatology and other biblical interpretation on this history then, they wouldn't be too happy to be put to shame by the brave messengers of Christ, who died by the millions in Europe up until their times. What is shocking is that these so called modern "anabaptists" tarnish the name of the historical BAPTISTS and true christians.

    But be not surprised. Satan is deep into the anabaptist churches as well. Many of them do not preach the gospel, but preach some kind of "personal holiness" or swiss or german tradition-based communal salvation(works salvation). Many of the so called "anabaptists" are not true baptists but cults based on 15,16,17 century apostates living in the alps(Hutterites etc). Many of them, like the AMISH, cannot be farther from the truths of the gospel.

    We MUST, however, be very careful not to limit apostolic succession to too large a set of beliefs. What I mean is there are a group of baptists who, in a sense, claim that there is no salvation outside the baptist churches (catholic leaven). Others say those who are outside of "baptist churches" will be servants in the physical kingdom of God! And others that baptism is only valid when done by a "proper" baptist minister! They are the so called "baptist briders". We must be careful not to cause too many division and turn churches into idols. It is the God of the temple we are to worship, not the Temple (Jeremiah 7:4)

  3. In my new "Where is Waldo?" article, I have given a very good article replete with references on the BIBLE of the Waldensians:


  4. "........a succession of unsaved, satanic, reprobate devil worshippers who were mandated by constantine&co to take temporal power over the realms of Rome.......".

    As the priests of Rome are idolatrous and worshipers of images, there's time I am ruminating on the question of the celibacy. It time since I am sometimes thinking about this question from the perspective of God promising to visit till the third or fourth generations of the ones who doesn't respect the II Commandment. I believe that the Satanic priesthood of Rome prohibited LEGITIMATE children to his members, probably in knowledge of such heavy warning by God.

    It doesn't matter if they have anyway children, but they are NOT legitimate. Therefore with their idolatry, the Roman Catholic priesthood, they are offending God and at the same time avoiding his punishment because in any case a priest cannot have a family and descendants.

  5. "....Many of the so called "anabaptists" are not true baptists but cults based on 15,16,17 century apostates living in the alps(Hutterites etc). Many of them, like the AMISH, cannot be farther from the truths of the gospel.

    Because the salvation by works, they so proudly threw away from the principal door, entered sneaky by the backstage door, with their idolatry of the social secular organization, a frame of pure works, rituals, etc. they believe have the power to save the soul.

    Anyway for us such sects are important because they are demonstrating that great part of genuine Christian doctrine was preserved, even if then the branch dried. Of course heresies popped up because Satan is always ready to ambush the ones not awoken in the spirit.

  6. "........among the protestant scholars VERY FEW acknowledge the Waldenses as the messangers of the christian faith. This is only logical, since most of the protestants presume the reformation to be the start of biblical christianity of Europe........".

    In fact, I label them a sort of deniers, as the mainstream Reformation retained many heretical horrors of the Catholicism, they too need, like the church of Rome, to deny any other form of continuity from the early Christians, the Apostolic first Christians. A continuity such as the Vaudoises/Waldenses, is a thorn in their eyes, continually recalling them on their errors. In fact the first deniers of the antiquity of the Nobla Leycon (1120 AD) are the Reformed Waldenses the same! .... see this excerpt from WIkipedia:


    "........Some authors [26][27] try to date a Reformation-era Waldensian confession of faith back into the Middle Ages in 1120 to assert their claim of doctrinal antiquity.[28] However, it is undisputable in the current historiography from Waldensians themselves that this confession was drafted in 1531.[29][30]............".

    "Indisputable".... what an arrogance, of void words! You go to the note [30] which says among other .... "... l'importanza del codice valdese c-5-18 (Ms. 259) del Trinity College di Dublino per la storia dell'adesione dei Valdesi alla Riforma...." or translated: "...the importance of the c-code Waldensian 5-18 (Ms. 259) at Trinity College Dublin in the history of the ACCESSION OF THE WALDENSES TO THE REFORMATION...".

    Therefore anything before the Reformation must be erased. The fact that the REFORMED Waldenses are claiming there were no Waldenses before a certain Waldo of 1170, doesn't confirm what they say, but is an evidence that the truth can be the exactly opposite. Especially if this denial is put in comparison with the abundant traces of sort of embryo Protestantism (harshly protesting against the church of Rome for apostasy) even still during the late Ancient Age and at the beginning in the early Middle Age in Italy as described by James Aitken Wylie .

  7. The pdf books of the notes in the Wikipedia page are worth to be studied:


    "....Accordingly, it is not difficult to show that, ever since the rise of
    the “Man of Sin,” there has been a succession of those whom the
    Scriptures style, “Witnesses for God” — ”Witnesses for the
    truth;” who have kept alive “the faith once delivered to the saints;”
    and have, in some good degree of faithfulness, maintained the ordinances and discipline which the inspired apostles, in the
    Master’s name, committed to the keeping of the Church.

    Among these Witnesses, the first that we distinctly read of were
    the Pauliclans. They rose about A.D. 660. A very interesting
    account of these pious people is given in Milner’s Ecclesiastical
    History of the seventh century; and a still more extended and
    distinct account, in the Revelation Adam Blair’s History of the
    Waldenses, Book I. chapter I.

    While the Paulicians were still maintaining their faithful testimony,
    the Waldenses arose; or, rather more probably, these two
    denominations had a common origin, and a common faith. The
    name Waldenses, the most common and popular one of these
    humble and devoted people, was evidently derived — not from
    Peter Waldo, but from the place of their abode. The following
    statement of the learned and ingenious Robert Robinson, a divine of
    Cambridge, in England, who died more than half a century ago,
    places the origin of this name in what I suppose to be the true

    “From the Latin, Vallis, came the English, valley; the French and
    Spanish, valle; the Italian, valdesi; the Low Dutch, valleye; the
    Provencal, vaux, vaudais; the ecclesiastical Vallenses, Valdenses,
    Ualdenses, and Waldenses. The words simply signify vallies, —
    the inhabitants of vallies, and no more. It happened that the
    inhabitants of the Pyrenees did not profess the Catholic faith. It
    fell out also that the inhabitants of the rallies about the Alps did
    not embrace that faith. It happened, moreover, in the ninth
    century, that one Valdo, a friend and counselor of Berengarius, and
    a man of eminence, who had many followers, did not approve of
    the Papal discipline and doctrine. And it came to pass, about an
    hundred and thirty years after, that a rich merchant of Lyons, who
    was called Valdus, because he received his religious opinions from
    the inhabitants of the vallies, openly disavowed the Roman
    religion, supported many to teach the doctrines believed in the
    vallies, and became the instrument of the conversion of great
    numbers. All these people were called WALDENSES.”1

    See also:

  8. Yes definitively you found the right key of lecture:


    "........The definitive answer to the question "where is WALDO" is that true WALDO is still alive and kicking and will be, because it is Christ who is with us and Christ, whose church WILL NOT be overcome by the GATES OF HELL, which are being opened here by the WOLVES and COUNTERFEIT "WALDOS" OF ROME. Open that big book, the 1611 KJB, and you will find THE WAY, THE TRUTH and the LIFE, Jesus Christ, the WORD.

    GET SAVED NOW, DEAR READER ............."